Reason points out a fascinating lecture [podcast only] by James C. Scott, South East Asian scholar and political historian.

Scott argues that South East Asian hill tribes should be seen as an evolved culture of statelessness, not a archaeological relic from before the existence of the state.

The lecture is a preview of a forthcoming book. He uses hills and valleys as the main divisor of historical "statefulness" in SE Asia. Keeping in mind that for most of its history, most states have had a tyrannical relationship with their subjects, he casts those outside or at the periphery of a state as there by choice, more like political, religious or economic refugees than barbarians. He also emphasises that the flow of population into and out of states has been very much two-way depending on the relative prosperity and coherence of a kingdom within larger cycles of dynastic formation and collapse.

To support this, he points out, amongst other things, that forms of valley agriculture such as wet rice farming are particularly easy for a state to control - monocropped, relatively immobile capital investment in oxen and tilled land, seasonal and therefore prone to extortion in that season, and so on. Another point that stuck out was that almost every hill tribe has an origin myth where they had writing, but lost it. They lost it either through accident, such as their writing was on a cake which they had to eat, or through malice, such as someone stealing or destroying it.

There's no transcript so I can't readily quote to give it justice. This is not the only reframing of the relationship between successful empires and their barbarian (or otherwise) neighbours about, but it states the case more boldly and clearly than I've seen before.
Cam Riley: South Sea Republic. Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic.

Comments

  • cam . # . 1/1
    Interesting. Zakaria argues that democracy and capitalism are linked because of the per capita wealth needed to secure it (ie a middle class with a large interest in property laws). It seems though that Scott is saying the state is a predatory organisation which can only exist through ease of wealthy prey?
    'Sworn to no party, and of no sect am I.' Frederick Vosper's republican motto.
    • adam . # .
      Well, he's actually careful to frame this discussion pre-WWII. He's explicitly concerned with colonialism, which in a broad sense is what all agrarian empires get up to with their neighbouring non-sedantary cultures. At the end of the day Scott is a senior professor at Yale; I'm sure he's familiar with the benefits of a modern state.

      The predator / prey analogy is an interesting one. In the questions section of that excellent lecture he emphasises that the flow of population between the states and non-states is two way. In times of peace and prosperity the agrarian state attracts people because of stability, roofs over heads, luxuries, written cultural tradition, fame and fortune, all the classic reasons to favour self-defined civilisation.
      Give me utilitiy or give me something slightly better!
    • adam . # .
      (comment length bug ... from prev. btw the login thing seems to be fixed since I upgraded to Firefox 3)

      During times of war the flow tended to be the other way, with the extra complication that the main resource states fought over in SE Asia was people themselves. So it's not obviously predator-prey because prey eat different foods to predators. For most of SE Asian history there were more stateless people than state-controlled. That cycle allusion was a bit of Turchin / Scott homebrew I threw in as well. Scott is solidly a qualitative scholar by all accounts.

      I don't think Zakaria and Scott are necessarily incompatible; you could say before the advent of the $20k per capita liberal democracy, your choices for liberty were hill tribal anarchy (which, remember, was less marginal than it sounds) or jump. I don't necessarily agree with Zakaria given the Indian experience though. There are also fairly good republican, sub-democratic governments in the world and history.
      Give me utilitiy or give me something slightly better!